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	<title>Comments on: Jesus Died So That We Can Have Peace And Prosperity!</title>
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	<link>http://lormarie.com/2008/02/23/jesus-died-so-that-we-can-have-peace-and-prosperity/</link>
	<description>Freethinking as it's meant to be</description>
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		<title>By: LorMarie</title>
		<link>http://lormarie.com/2008/02/23/jesus-died-so-that-we-can-have-peace-and-prosperity/#comment-174</link>
		<dc:creator>LorMarie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 23:42:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rainedrops.wordpress.com/?p=82#comment-174</guid>
		<description>Hi Norma Clark,

Most people who are against prosperity ministries are spot on correct. The truth is, if God intended for everything to go right in our lives, they would. Christians suffer in their physical bodies, with money, and everything else. That&#039;s a fact that cannot be disputed. The error in prosperity ministries is not having material blessings, but preaching that they are available to every believer and some who are milking money out of their congregations.  If you respond again, address the issue of christian persecution, poverty, health concerns, etc. 

Your concern may be the blessings, but mine is how this teaching is turning people away from salvation through a false gospel. And I am speaking as a woman who sat under these ministries for a number of years and as a woman who has many material blessings. Also, I am still a fan of Paula White. But thank God my focus is on Him rather than the expensive bags I am able to buy, the vacations I plan, the money I make, my health, etc. So please don&#039;t be deceived.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Norma Clark,</p>
<p>Most people who are against prosperity ministries are spot on correct. The truth is, if God intended for everything to go right in our lives, they would. Christians suffer in their physical bodies, with money, and everything else. That&#8217;s a fact that cannot be disputed. The error in prosperity ministries is not having material blessings, but preaching that they are available to every believer and some who are milking money out of their congregations.  If you respond again, address the issue of christian persecution, poverty, health concerns, etc. </p>
<p>Your concern may be the blessings, but mine is how this teaching is turning people away from salvation through a false gospel. And I am speaking as a woman who sat under these ministries for a number of years and as a woman who has many material blessings. Also, I am still a fan of Paula White. But thank God my focus is on Him rather than the expensive bags I am able to buy, the vacations I plan, the money I make, my health, etc. So please don&#8217;t be deceived.</p>
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		<title>By: Norma Clark</title>
		<link>http://lormarie.com/2008/02/23/jesus-died-so-that-we-can-have-peace-and-prosperity/#comment-173</link>
		<dc:creator>Norma Clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 20:18:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rainedrops.wordpress.com/?p=82#comment-173</guid>
		<description>Prosperity does not pertain just to money.  Prosperity pertains to being blessed abundantly in every area of your life including salvation, your emotions, physical well being, situations and actual money.  I just feel that most people who are against these ministers are just jeaslous.  Christanity is not just a religion; it is a lifestyle.  Why would God not want us to be wealthy when he makes provision in his Word for us to be the most blessed people on earth?  We should be the most influential and wealthy of all of the people on this earth.  I am a blessed person and know that these men and women are just trying to do what God has led them to do.  Don&#039;t be so quick to condemn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prosperity does not pertain just to money.  Prosperity pertains to being blessed abundantly in every area of your life including salvation, your emotions, physical well being, situations and actual money.  I just feel that most people who are against these ministers are just jeaslous.  Christanity is not just a religion; it is a lifestyle.  Why would God not want us to be wealthy when he makes provision in his Word for us to be the most blessed people on earth?  We should be the most influential and wealthy of all of the people on this earth.  I am a blessed person and know that these men and women are just trying to do what God has led them to do.  Don&#8217;t be so quick to condemn.</p>
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		<title>By: LorMarie</title>
		<link>http://lormarie.com/2008/02/23/jesus-died-so-that-we-can-have-peace-and-prosperity/#comment-152</link>
		<dc:creator>LorMarie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 18:43:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rainedrops.wordpress.com/?p=82#comment-152</guid>
		<description>It appears that this is becoming more heated than I had hoped. You are now avoiding the major issues so there is no point in continuing. I was a follower of the prosperity gospel for 10 years actively. I am very familiar with the ministries spoken about in the video. You have moved from declaring that scripture backs up the prosperity gospel, then backing down from that once it was shown (by scripture) that to base a ministry on prosperity is wrong.  As for your claim that it worked for you (what 3 areas, Iraq? Parting of the Atlantic Ocean? Ailments?). It appears that your relationship with God is based on blessings and not salvation. That is the worst thing of anything you imply. As for 100&#039;s of instances of it working? That proves nothing against the claim of what is really important.  I&#039;ve seen things working myself, I&#039;ve also seen the prosperity claims not work (in fact, I see it not working more than it works--for just about everyone I&#039;ve witnessed in that movement).  But again, that&#039;s not what&#039;s important.  Some of us will be poor, sick, most middle class, healthy, and a few rich. None of that has anything to do with the gospel message.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It appears that this is becoming more heated than I had hoped. You are now avoiding the major issues so there is no point in continuing. I was a follower of the prosperity gospel for 10 years actively. I am very familiar with the ministries spoken about in the video. You have moved from declaring that scripture backs up the prosperity gospel, then backing down from that once it was shown (by scripture) that to base a ministry on prosperity is wrong.  As for your claim that it worked for you (what 3 areas, Iraq? Parting of the Atlantic Ocean? Ailments?). It appears that your relationship with God is based on blessings and not salvation. That is the worst thing of anything you imply. As for 100&#8217;s of instances of it working? That proves nothing against the claim of what is really important.  I&#8217;ve seen things working myself, I&#8217;ve also seen the prosperity claims not work (in fact, I see it not working more than it works&#8211;for just about everyone I&#8217;ve witnessed in that movement).  But again, that&#8217;s not what&#8217;s important.  Some of us will be poor, sick, most middle class, healthy, and a few rich. None of that has anything to do with the gospel message.</p>
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		<title>By: Sdavis</title>
		<link>http://lormarie.com/2008/02/23/jesus-died-so-that-we-can-have-peace-and-prosperity/#comment-151</link>
		<dc:creator>Sdavis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 03:43:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rainedrops.wordpress.com/?p=82#comment-151</guid>
		<description>Does ACTS 10:34 not say that God is not a respector of persons. If he will do it for the people in the old testament he will do it for me! Listen we all have the right to our own opinion. I just do what works for me! I believe in prosperity. I dont think its a money message I think its an obedience message. If you have a kid and he or she does good you bless them. Is God not a parent are we NOT his children. Just think of the LOVE you have for that kid and how when he does good you just want to bless him or her. Is Gods love for us not so much stronger. Bottom line if what you believe works for you then thats great. We are all climbing a mountain trying to get to the same spot JUST some of us take different paths. Doesnt mean YOU are Wrong Doesnt mean I am wrong. It works for me spiritually phisycally and financially. Dont matter if I gave you a 100 instances on how its worked for me in all 3 areas I just mentioned you wouldnt believe me! So I rest my case. I did learn something though</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does ACTS 10:34 not say that God is not a respector of persons. If he will do it for the people in the old testament he will do it for me! Listen we all have the right to our own opinion. I just do what works for me! I believe in prosperity. I dont think its a money message I think its an obedience message. If you have a kid and he or she does good you bless them. Is God not a parent are we NOT his children. Just think of the LOVE you have for that kid and how when he does good you just want to bless him or her. Is Gods love for us not so much stronger. Bottom line if what you believe works for you then thats great. We are all climbing a mountain trying to get to the same spot JUST some of us take different paths. Doesnt mean YOU are Wrong Doesnt mean I am wrong. It works for me spiritually phisycally and financially. Dont matter if I gave you a 100 instances on how its worked for me in all 3 areas I just mentioned you wouldnt believe me! So I rest my case. I did learn something though</p>
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		<title>By: Sdavis</title>
		<link>http://lormarie.com/2008/02/23/jesus-died-so-that-we-can-have-peace-and-prosperity/#comment-150</link>
		<dc:creator>Sdavis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 03:08:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rainedrops.wordpress.com/?p=82#comment-150</guid>
		<description>THE BIBLE decreed Jesus was comming but it didnt happen over night</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>THE BIBLE decreed Jesus was comming but it didnt happen over night</p>
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		<title>By: Sdavis</title>
		<link>http://lormarie.com/2008/02/23/jesus-died-so-that-we-can-have-peace-and-prosperity/#comment-149</link>
		<dc:creator>Sdavis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 03:07:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rainedrops.wordpress.com/?p=82#comment-149</guid>
		<description>Tell me whats wrong with my other scripture and how they dont apply to me! I thought the whole written purpose of the bible was so man could read it and apply it to everyday life? I just have 1 other question for you! Have you ever watched these people you speak against? Is all they ever talk about money?Are you a tither? Do you not realize it takes money to be on tv? Is watching a preacher on TV any different than watching a GAME on TV? It take just as much money to do both. I dont think you have ever watched or studied out any of this! Just listened too CNN to long</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tell me whats wrong with my other scripture and how they dont apply to me! I thought the whole written purpose of the bible was so man could read it and apply it to everyday life? I just have 1 other question for you! Have you ever watched these people you speak against? Is all they ever talk about money?Are you a tither? Do you not realize it takes money to be on tv? Is watching a preacher on TV any different than watching a GAME on TV? It take just as much money to do both. I dont think you have ever watched or studied out any of this! Just listened too CNN to long</p>
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		<title>By: LorMarie</title>
		<link>http://lormarie.com/2008/02/23/jesus-died-so-that-we-can-have-peace-and-prosperity/#comment-148</link>
		<dc:creator>LorMarie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 02:31:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rainedrops.wordpress.com/?p=82#comment-148</guid>
		<description>First I&#039;d like to point out that all of what you brought in thus far are OT passages written for our learning and not necessarily personal applications. I also noticed that you offered no explanation which indicates you really don&#039;t understand the issue. Anyone can copy and paste bible passages but not all understand what they are about.  For example, you brought in:

Deuteronomy 8:18

18 But remember the LORD your God, for it is he who gives you the ability to produce wealth, and so confirms his covenant, which he swore to your forefathers, as it is today.

It is obvious that God was speaking to a specific group of people. Was there a covenant sworn to your forefathers? This doesn&#039;t prove your claim.

Joshua 1:7,8

7 Be strong and very courageous. Be careful to obey all the law my servant Moses gave you; do not turn from it to the right or to the left, that you may be successful wherever you go.

8This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.

Again, who was He talking to? If we accept your assertions, should we also believe that this applies to us:

Joshua 1

2Moses my servant is dead; now therefore arise, go over this Jordan, thou, and all this people, unto the land which I do give to them, even to the children of Israel

Were you given any land?  Also, verse 8 talks about the book of the law. What law is that? Here is one of the laws that Moses gave to the people: 

6If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;

 7Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;

 8Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:

 9But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 

Remember, you brought in Joshua 1:7-8 which according to you tells us to meditate on and obey  the law of Moses as it will lead to us becoming prosperous.  Would you put someone to death for enticing you to serve another God? You can&#039;t apply one part of Joshua 1:8  without applying all of it.  Again, it doesn&#039;t prove your claim.

Job 22 (King James Version)

28Thou shalt also decree a thing, and it shall be established unto thee: and the light shall shine upon thy ways.

Have you studied the book of Job?  If this passage proves your claim, then here is a challenge for you: &quot;decree&quot; that the war in Iraq stops tomorrow. Or, decree that the Atlantic Ocean is parted like the Red Sea. Or I&#039;ll try to make it simple decree that you will never suffer any ailment in life.  I especially await your response to this one. It&#039;s pivotal to the point I&#039;m making. 

As for my scriptures, the very fact that you would doubt my assertion is true (that being the most important message is salvation) is a serious red flag. In fact, prosperity is not important at all (note, I didn&#039;t say it was a sin, just not important).  Here are a few:

John 3
Jesus Teaches Nicodemus
 1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, &quot;Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him.&quot;

 3In reply Jesus declared, &quot;I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again

Galatians 1

 6I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

So if Jesus came to save people from their sins and gave no commandment to preach prosperity and riches, could the prosperity ministries be &quot;another gospel&quot;? It&#039;s obviously the case. What happens if one preaches another gospel? What exactly does the gospel mean to you? Why are bible believing christians severely persecuted in other parts of the world? In your opinion, did they not pray hard enough or meditate on the law (remember the passage your brought in)?

Remember, you stated that you do not like debate but would rather have a discussion for learning purposes (although, debates are for learning purposes). All I ask is that you back up your claims by showing an understanding of the texts in context and how they relate to the real world.  Otherwise, thanks for stopping by.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First I&#8217;d like to point out that all of what you brought in thus far are OT passages written for our learning and not necessarily personal applications. I also noticed that you offered no explanation which indicates you really don&#8217;t understand the issue. Anyone can copy and paste bible passages but not all understand what they are about.  For example, you brought in:</p>
<p>Deuteronomy 8:18</p>
<p>18 But remember the LORD your God, for it is he who gives you the ability to produce wealth, and so confirms his covenant, which he swore to your forefathers, as it is today.</p>
<p>It is obvious that God was speaking to a specific group of people. Was there a covenant sworn to your forefathers? This doesn&#8217;t prove your claim.</p>
<p>Joshua 1:7,8</p>
<p>7 Be strong and very courageous. Be careful to obey all the law my servant Moses gave you; do not turn from it to the right or to the left, that you may be successful wherever you go.</p>
<p>8This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.</p>
<p>Again, who was He talking to? If we accept your assertions, should we also believe that this applies to us:</p>
<p>Joshua 1</p>
<p>2Moses my servant is dead; now therefore arise, go over this Jordan, thou, and all this people, unto the land which I do give to them, even to the children of Israel</p>
<p>Were you given any land?  Also, verse 8 talks about the book of the law. What law is that? Here is one of the laws that Moses gave to the people: </p>
<p>6If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;</p>
<p> 7Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;</p>
<p> 8Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:</p>
<p> 9But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. </p>
<p>Remember, you brought in Joshua 1:7-8 which according to you tells us to meditate on and obey  the law of Moses as it will lead to us becoming prosperous.  Would you put someone to death for enticing you to serve another God? You can&#8217;t apply one part of Joshua 1:8  without applying all of it.  Again, it doesn&#8217;t prove your claim.</p>
<p>Job 22 (King James Version)</p>
<p>28Thou shalt also decree a thing, and it shall be established unto thee: and the light shall shine upon thy ways.</p>
<p>Have you studied the book of Job?  If this passage proves your claim, then here is a challenge for you: &#8220;decree&#8221; that the war in Iraq stops tomorrow. Or, decree that the Atlantic Ocean is parted like the Red Sea. Or I&#8217;ll try to make it simple decree that you will never suffer any ailment in life.  I especially await your response to this one. It&#8217;s pivotal to the point I&#8217;m making. </p>
<p>As for my scriptures, the very fact that you would doubt my assertion is true (that being the most important message is salvation) is a serious red flag. In fact, prosperity is not important at all (note, I didn&#8217;t say it was a sin, just not important).  Here are a few:</p>
<p>John 3<br />
Jesus Teaches Nicodemus<br />
 1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, &#8220;Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him.&#8221;</p>
<p> 3In reply Jesus declared, &#8220;I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again</p>
<p>Galatians 1</p>
<p> 6I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!</p>
<p>So if Jesus came to save people from their sins and gave no commandment to preach prosperity and riches, could the prosperity ministries be &#8220;another gospel&#8221;? It&#8217;s obviously the case. What happens if one preaches another gospel? What exactly does the gospel mean to you? Why are bible believing christians severely persecuted in other parts of the world? In your opinion, did they not pray hard enough or meditate on the law (remember the passage your brought in)?</p>
<p>Remember, you stated that you do not like debate but would rather have a discussion for learning purposes (although, debates are for learning purposes). All I ask is that you back up your claims by showing an understanding of the texts in context and how they relate to the real world.  Otherwise, thanks for stopping by.</p>
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		<title>By: Sdavis</title>
		<link>http://lormarie.com/2008/02/23/jesus-died-so-that-we-can-have-peace-and-prosperity/#comment-147</link>
		<dc:creator>Sdavis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 01:08:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rainedrops.wordpress.com/?p=82#comment-147</guid>
		<description>LorMarie
I agree that prosperity isnt the most important it isnt the least important either! I dont think there sole reason for preaching is prosperity But I believe its part of it So many times in the bible it is mentioned. Here you are with the scriptures YOU will have to look it up.
Deuteronomy 8:18
Joshua 1:7,8
Job 22:28
1 Chronicles 4:10
Psalm 1:1-3
Psalm 35:27
Psalm 37:3-5
Psalm 18;32
Psalm 31:19
Psalm 34:8-11
Psalm 85:12-13
Psalm 84:11
Isaiah 48:15-17
Just to NAME a FEW. Always remeber if these people are doing wrong GOD will Bring Their MINISTRY Crumbling down! No reason to debate I like to talk just for learning purposes! WHO knows YOU MAY BE ABSOULTLY RIGHT! BUT IF YOU CAN SHOW ME SOME SCRIPTURE AS I DID &quot; THEN ILL CONSIDER WHAT YOU ARE SAYING TO BE TRUE</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LorMarie<br />
I agree that prosperity isnt the most important it isnt the least important either! I dont think there sole reason for preaching is prosperity But I believe its part of it So many times in the bible it is mentioned. Here you are with the scriptures YOU will have to look it up.<br />
Deuteronomy 8:18<br />
Joshua 1:7,8<br />
Job 22:28<br />
1 Chronicles 4:10<br />
Psalm 1:1-3<br />
Psalm 35:27<br />
Psalm 37:3-5<br />
Psalm 18;32<br />
Psalm 31:19<br />
Psalm 34:8-11<br />
Psalm 85:12-13<br />
Psalm 84:11<br />
Isaiah 48:15-17<br />
Just to NAME a FEW. Always remeber if these people are doing wrong GOD will Bring Their MINISTRY Crumbling down! No reason to debate I like to talk just for learning purposes! WHO knows YOU MAY BE ABSOULTLY RIGHT! BUT IF YOU CAN SHOW ME SOME SCRIPTURE AS I DID &#8221; THEN ILL CONSIDER WHAT YOU ARE SAYING TO BE TRUE</p>
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		<title>By: LorMarie</title>
		<link>http://lormarie.com/2008/02/23/jesus-died-so-that-we-can-have-peace-and-prosperity/#comment-146</link>
		<dc:creator>LorMarie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 00:03:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rainedrops.wordpress.com/?p=82#comment-146</guid>
		<description>SDavis,

The most important message of Jesus is NOT prosperity but salvation. Any minister who preaches otherwise should be avoided. There is no scripture to support ministries based on prosperity. Now if you&#039;d like to bring in the scriptures you feel back your opinion, please do so and we can have a debate regarding the issue.  Fair?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SDavis,</p>
<p>The most important message of Jesus is NOT prosperity but salvation. Any minister who preaches otherwise should be avoided. There is no scripture to support ministries based on prosperity. Now if you&#8217;d like to bring in the scriptures you feel back your opinion, please do so and we can have a debate regarding the issue.  Fair?</p>
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		<title>By: Sdavis</title>
		<link>http://lormarie.com/2008/02/23/jesus-died-so-that-we-can-have-peace-and-prosperity/#comment-145</link>
		<dc:creator>Sdavis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 22:01:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rainedrops.wordpress.com/?p=82#comment-145</guid>
		<description>Lor Marie
I dont send them money Just like I said in my First post I do not SUPPORT any of these ministries! Noone will ever KNOW ALL there is to know about the bible. BUT I know what I have read in the bible and I have scripture for everything I refered to about Jesus!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lor Marie<br />
I dont send them money Just like I said in my First post I do not SUPPORT any of these ministries! Noone will ever KNOW ALL there is to know about the bible. BUT I know what I have read in the bible and I have scripture for everything I refered to about Jesus!</p>
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